Posted on July 21 2026
In Saturday's Wind Knots and Tailing loops page, I wrote at length about the situation here in the Delaware River System regarding the fish population. Brian, unless he's being factious, said I was correct, and went to the trouble of looking up and posting a statement from the "fish and game commission", (NY, PA or ????). The statement is laced with errors, is generic in nature, does not take into consideration the changes wrought by catch and release fishing, it has no relevance to a tailwater fishery such as the Delaware.
John asked what caused the discrepancies in trout sizes, and what did I mean by paying the piper?
Here goes - In the days before catch and release became popular almost no trout lived past two years. An 11 or 12 inch fish was fish of the day and a 14 incher was fish of the year. Brown trout in my trout pond can and have lived ten years. The NY DEC has killed some big trout in the Delaware so that they could determine their age and I'm quite sure they found Delaware River brown trout that were at least ten years old.
I haven't kept records on Brook trout and will exclude them from this discussion. (Bob Peel aka Rod Hunter former writer of the Hunting and Fishing column in the Syracuse paper once said "Brook trout were like Chorus Girls, beautiful but dumb").
Rainbow trout in the Delaware grow faster than brown trout. Most rainbows die after four years. Rainbows in the Delaware reach ten inches in length usually sometime in August of their second year, (16 months), by May they are two years old and on average are 13 inches long, by the following May they are three years old and between 15 and 16 inches long, in their fourth year genetics take over, some 'bows top out at 17, most get to 18 or 19, only rarely does a Delaware rainbow reach 20 inches in length, (no matter what your guide says).
Brown trout in the Delaware grow slower than Rainbow trout but live considerably longer and can and do get bigger. Delaware River browns are between 11 and 12 inches long on their second birthday in May. On their third birthday they are between 13 and 14 inches long, the 15 and 16 inchers that are being caught this year were four years old in May.
Because of catch and release fishing, fish today live much longer and reach greater sizes than the fish did in the days when everyone filled their creel with ten fish. In writing a generic article you have to consider streams of all sizes. I've seen two 5 inch brook trout duking it out for the favor of a six inch female brookie in a Tug Hill stream no more than three feet wide. All three fish will die of old age before they come close to ten inches in length. Freestone streams are suffering from global warming. Fish now spend three months not growing but just trying to survive in them. The Delaware is a tailwater system. The New York Reservoirs release cold water into the UEB and WB all year long. There are bug hatches almost every month of the year. The WB above the reservoir is farmland, you curse the algae, but the nutrient rich water abounds in marine life that supports the fantastic growth rates the West Branch fish have. The less nutrient rich UEB has almost no algae and the growths rates of the fish there are slower.
The "fish and game report" acknowledges that growth rates can and do vary and then quotes figures that make trying to determine growth rates impossible. I believe the figures I have quoted are accurate for the Delaware River System.
Paying the Piper - Don't know where the expression comes from, (never saw a piper to pay), but it means you are enjoying the music but when the piper is done playing you will have to pay him. On the Delaware we have a very top heavy fish population, (lots of big fish and almost no little ones). Why? you see the mergansers eating small trout, eagles get larger ones, striped bass, otters, osprey, mink all take their toll but I believe the biggest predation is done by large brown trout, (notice how hard it is to get your hand around a fat 17 incher, that's not from eating Dorotheas. When the big brown numbers are reduced by the ravages of time, everyone will have to learn to enjoy catching very little fish because the big fish we are catching have eaten almost all of the last three year classes of young fish.
The fishing - Wasn't worth talking about.
When fishing dries on the Delaware during a hatch it is easy to target the bigger fish. Wonder how much the catch rate of larger fish could simply be due to bypassing the smaller fish. Also agree with the other poster that when I’m forced to dredge the bottom with nymphs I’ll often catch dinks.
Lefty Frizzell – She’s Gone, Gone Gone. But I’m older than most of you.
Don K- Correction its… Dream last night , even though drink sounds better.
As usual 119 is correct….Once on a trip to a fabled Centre County PA. spring creek I witnessed a large brown trout swim up behind a smaller 8 inch brown I had hooked on a big sulphur dry fly…The big brown was estimated at least 2 feet long ..by the my friend who witnessed the event..The big fish just sat there watching the smaller fish flopping on the surface in mid stream.. The big fish never moved after I slowly reeled in the smaller fish..I quickly tied on a streamer pattern and tried to entice the big fish..it just ignored my best efforts and dropped back into the depths of that pool…Big fish want meat…for the effort..
I would go with the Everly Brothers on this one but my favorite reference to GONE GONE GONE goes to the Electric Prunes and their song..I HAD TO MUCH TO DRINK LAST NIGHT..:-)
As usual 119 is correct….Once on a trip to a fabled Centre County PA. spring creek I witnessed a large brown trout swim up behind a smaller 8 inch brown I had hooked on a big sulphur dry fly…The big brown was estimated at least 2 feet long ..by the my friend who witnessed the event..The big fish just sat there watching the smaller fish flopping on the surface in mid stream.. The big fish never moved after I slowly reeled in the smaller fish..I quickly tied on a streamer pattern and tried to entice the big fish..it just ignored my best efforts and dropped back into the depths of that pool…Big fish want meat…for the effort..
I would go with the Everly Brothers on this one but my favorite reference to GONE GONE GONE goes to the Electric Prunes and their song..I HAD TO MUCH TO DRINK LAST NIGHT..:-)
Jim D.👍
Excellent explanation. Thank you.
Ron K… great YouTube video of “Fly At Nite” if you get a chance to watch it..great musician’s . One of my all time favorite Canadian bands is The Kings…their one hit wonder “Beat Goes On/ Switch Into Glide” is on my playlist..
One thing I’m not seeing is brown trout with big heads and small bodies, indicating old age and lack of food. The Delaware river browns seem well fed. That said, I don’t believe they live past 5 years or so. I spend a lot of time fishing streamers but rarely get a brown over 22”, a 24” brown is exceedingly rare. The exception used to be reservoir fish swept over the dams during high (very high at times) overtopping flows. The current water release policy (unfortunately) limits this recruitment.
A119- Spot on about brook trout. Many years ago, I was invited to fish a private pond full of wild brook trout. They were an easy catch on a steamer with a red tag or tail. I lost count after 35. Most were 5 to 10 inches. I was told anything over 10 was a rare catch.
To Jim D. and Ed S., I like “Fly at Nite” by Chilliwack, good acoustic and electric guitar vibe from a good Canadian band.
I have another theory on the lack of small trout on the surface. I sometimes nymph fish before hatch(it’s a long ride I need to make the most of it). I’ve caught numerous small fish in the same riffles and runs on nymphs this year that later on I only see big fish rising in during the hatch. Could it be that the overall trout population has exploded due to the increased releases in recent years? So maybe there are both many big and little fish and the little ones stay protected close to the bottom, feeding on nymphs as to not expose themselves going to the surface for a bug only to be gobbled up by a large brown trout? Just a hopeful thougjt cuz the alternative is bad!
Recommended reading on the topic below. Quick note, it can be difficult to sample the larger trout in the system, when hit with electricity they often just swim away..
https://dec.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2026-04/deltailwaersreportcard.pdf
Angler 119- Thanks for the discussion on the changes in the fish populations and possible reasons why. Nature will regain the balance overtime. ( as the rainbow populations on the Madison did after being hurt by whirling disease 40 years ago)However , as an older fisherman I may not be able to wait it out. Who knows. Jim D- You are amazing. I never even heard of the Chillieacks. Very cool. Hope to fish the UWB tomorrow. Hope the rain doesn’t muddy things up. Ed
Dennis – I had never heard that term, but have witnessed it with wild pheasant populations out West. Believe or not, predation nor hunting were a major factor, hail storms and floods had the largest effect on the population. You would see wild swings based on the previous summer’s weather, boom and bust.
Super interesting analysis. I’m not a biologist but took a course in population biology. What you describe is a great description of a top-down trophic cascade. A good example is the reintroduction of wolves (c.f. large browns) to the Yellowstone ecosystem. Given that the ecology of the streams is very complex (like the factors you bring up), it will be difficult to predict the consequences, but there are models that try. One outcome is a cycle between explosions and crashes at the different trophic levels. But I’m not sure, because a lot depends on the base of the food web, and I don’t think it’s clear if changing fish populations alter the aquatic insect load. See “Trophic Cascade” in Wikipedia or your favorite ecology text.
Now that 70’s song by Chilliwack is stuck in my head… great report!